A reader writes:
My girlfriend recently accepted a job at a new company. A day later, completely coincidentally, I applied for a job at the same company. I didn't know it was the same company until the recruiter got back to me and told me, but now I do. I haven't told the recruiter that I am going out with one of their new employees, and I haven't told them. I've had one interview, two online tests, and am having the final interview today.
When do I tell them that I am in a relationship with one of their new employees? We've been going out for over three years so its not a short-term fling or anything, and since we will be in different departments (if I get the job of course) I don't think we'll even see each other during the day that much.
There are three options, and currently I am going to go with option 1:
1. Wait until I have an offer, then call up my line manager who interviewed me (bypassing the recruiter) and tell him. I would say that I wanted to get the interview "on my own merits" without any external influences, and that I may have not got an offer so it wouldn't have mattered. I'd say that I wanted to tell him so that I have been honest with him, and I don't feel it will affect my performance in the office at all. It was a complete coincidence.
2. Tell him in the interview today. I think this would be jumping the gun as I may not even get an offer, and may jeopardize my chances if they do have an issue with it.
3. Don't say anything, start working and pretend we started going out very soon after starting to work there, or just admit it once I start working. This feels wrong as I'm an honest person and think it would create a very bad impression of me.
What do you think?
I think it's none of their business, especially at this stage, and you shouldn't mention it before you get an offer, for that reason.
However, some companies (fewer and fewer, but still some) have policies against "fraternization." These policies are silly, but some places do have them. Your girlfriend should know, or be able to find out, if this one does. If it does (again, very unlikely), you'd have to decide whether to turn down the offer or hide your relationship. (Or, you know, dump your girlfriend.)
But assuming they don't have any policies against it, it's really no one's business, since neither of you would be managing the other and you won't be working in the same department.
Is this a large company? If so, I wouldn't bother mentioning it at all. I also wouldn't try to pretend like you met on the job; I'd just not address it all, because who cares?
But if it's a smaller company, I'd go with your option #1. If they do for some reason think it's a big deal, better to find out at that point than on your first day.
Alternately, if you're the sort who likes causing intrigue, you can generate some major gossip by telling no one, but being seen leaving together on your first day and then many days thereafter. People will think you win over the ladies really, really fast, and you'll be the subject of all kinds of speculation.
Showing posts with label job searching. Show all posts
Showing posts with label job searching. Show all posts
Friday, July 10, 2009
Tuesday, July 7, 2009
are employers finding out I was a stripper?
A reader writes:
I moved away from home, and got into a bad crowd a couple of years ago. I made some crappy decisions, the biggest one being that I was working in a strip club/business for about three years. Now, obviously, I cannot be absolutely honest in that particular job aspect, and having no tax forms to show I worked there, it's hard to trace. My dad, who knows the situation, told me to put down that I worked for him doing administrative work for those years. I am experienced (worked and took a class) in the basic duties of administrative work, and every test that I have had to take I have done well in (Microsoft Excel, Data Entry 10-Key, Typing). I know that it is basically dishonest to fudge my employment record, but I know the programs, that is what I put as my knowledge, and my dad will back me up.
The problem is this: I get only so far into the interview process, until I sign the form consenting to a background check, and then -- no calls, or outright denied employment. I've been reading your site for awhile now (and have remarkably improved my rusty interviewing skills -- thanks), and figure you could give me an insight on things. Should I say I was an independent contractor for those years? What do employers look up on background checks? I'd appreciate your feedback.
Well, as I'm sure you know from reading this blog, lying about past employment isn't a good idea. You might be better off not making up past employment and not mentioning the strip clubs, and simply starting with no job history. You wouldn't be the first. It will pose an added challenge, for sure, but then you won't be living in fear of the lie being uncovered.
But you don't need me to tell you that, and I'm in a sympathetic mood, so let's move to the substance of your question.
What kind of background checks are these companies doing? If they're looking at your credit report, they may be seeing a red flag in that you have no reported employers for the period in question. However, if they deny your application based information they find in your credit report, they're required by the credit reporting laws to tell you that. So if you're not receiving those notices, that's not what's happening. So let's assume it's not that. A more general background check could also reveal past employers (and in your case, it sounds like they'd find none for that period, which would be suspicious).
But I think there's something else going on, although I don't know what it is. Are there people they might be calling for references who aren't giving the sort of reference you want? (Keep in mind that companies aren't limited to just the list of references they hand them; they can and do also call other employers on your resume.)
It's also possible -- maybe even likely -- that there's nothing going on here; it's a hard economy and your work history isn't extensive, and maybe it's not about this at all. That's a real possibility.
I suggest trying to get some feedback from some of these companies you've applied to. Plenty won't give you any, but you might get lucky and get someone who tells you something useful. In order to have any chance of anyone being honest with you, you need to be really, really clear (in words and in tone) that you are not trying to debate the decision, just trying to get an understanding of why you're not getting job offers. Make them want to help you. There's some advice on how to do that here.
What input do others have?
I moved away from home, and got into a bad crowd a couple of years ago. I made some crappy decisions, the biggest one being that I was working in a strip club/business for about three years. Now, obviously, I cannot be absolutely honest in that particular job aspect, and having no tax forms to show I worked there, it's hard to trace. My dad, who knows the situation, told me to put down that I worked for him doing administrative work for those years. I am experienced (worked and took a class) in the basic duties of administrative work, and every test that I have had to take I have done well in (Microsoft Excel, Data Entry 10-Key, Typing). I know that it is basically dishonest to fudge my employment record, but I know the programs, that is what I put as my knowledge, and my dad will back me up.
The problem is this: I get only so far into the interview process, until I sign the form consenting to a background check, and then -- no calls, or outright denied employment. I've been reading your site for awhile now (and have remarkably improved my rusty interviewing skills -- thanks), and figure you could give me an insight on things. Should I say I was an independent contractor for those years? What do employers look up on background checks? I'd appreciate your feedback.
Well, as I'm sure you know from reading this blog, lying about past employment isn't a good idea. You might be better off not making up past employment and not mentioning the strip clubs, and simply starting with no job history. You wouldn't be the first. It will pose an added challenge, for sure, but then you won't be living in fear of the lie being uncovered.
But you don't need me to tell you that, and I'm in a sympathetic mood, so let's move to the substance of your question.
What kind of background checks are these companies doing? If they're looking at your credit report, they may be seeing a red flag in that you have no reported employers for the period in question. However, if they deny your application based information they find in your credit report, they're required by the credit reporting laws to tell you that. So if you're not receiving those notices, that's not what's happening. So let's assume it's not that. A more general background check could also reveal past employers (and in your case, it sounds like they'd find none for that period, which would be suspicious).
But I think there's something else going on, although I don't know what it is. Are there people they might be calling for references who aren't giving the sort of reference you want? (Keep in mind that companies aren't limited to just the list of references they hand them; they can and do also call other employers on your resume.)
It's also possible -- maybe even likely -- that there's nothing going on here; it's a hard economy and your work history isn't extensive, and maybe it's not about this at all. That's a real possibility.
I suggest trying to get some feedback from some of these companies you've applied to. Plenty won't give you any, but you might get lucky and get someone who tells you something useful. In order to have any chance of anyone being honest with you, you need to be really, really clear (in words and in tone) that you are not trying to debate the decision, just trying to get an understanding of why you're not getting job offers. Make them want to help you. There's some advice on how to do that here.
What input do others have?
Wednesday, July 1, 2009
is staffing agency lying to me?
A reader writes:
I've been out of work for 6 months and have been looking and there have been a few interviews. Two of the interviews were generated through staffing agencies. The first interview did not go well and I received no confirmation from the agency to confirm a rejection. I followed up with them a month later and they mentioned the company had decided to hire from within, which I felt was just a flat-out lie.
The second interview through a staffing firm was recent and the interview was very positive. I followed up with thank-you letters to both people I had met with and got a call 3 days later from the staffing agent, stating they desired a 2nd interview in a couple of days but she didn't know the time. She said she would get back to me soon with more info. After that I heard nothing. 3 days went by and I called her office and did not receive a call back. I then called the hiring manager at the company and left him a very cordial and professional message asking about the status of the second interview, but had no response from either party. I waited until yesterday (3 business days after the phone calls ) and emailed the staffing woman requesting a reason why they had stopped everything in such an odd manner and how I might be able to improve anything on my end for upcoming opportunities. I received a response from her that they still wanted to meet with me, hopefully sometime next week, and the reason was they were quite busy, etc, etc. I thanked her for her help and mentioned I would follow up in a week if I didn't hear anything by then. Then today I get a call from her and she tells me they decided to hire someone internally but they might be bringing me back in for a different position interview in a few weeks, "but no promises."
What happened here? Truthfully, I don't believe the staffing agent's story and figured you might be able to decode this ridiculous turn of events.
I hate to tell you this, but I think you're reading way too much into all this and being too suspicious.
Your staffing agency sounds like it might be mediocre, possibly disorganized and unresponsive. At a minimum, they don't put a premium on keeping candidates in the loop in a timely way. But believe me, they are soooo not alone in that behavior; it's very common, although obviously it shouldn't be. I happen to believe that not getting back to candidates who took the time to interview is the height of rudeness, but plenty of companies operate that way.
But being slow to get back to you and not being responsive to your calls doesn't indicate that they're lying to you. People who hire for a living are used to having to dispense rejection; they don't make up cover stores when it's so easy to just tell the truth -- "we went with another candidate," "we didn't feel you were the right match," etc. I can almost guarantee you that unless you somehow stumbled upon the one staffing agency in the world that isn't comfortable rejecting people, they're not lying to you.
Job hunting is frustrating and even more so when your calls aren't getting returned. But don't leap from that to assuming there's some kind of mysterious cover-up going on here.
I've been out of work for 6 months and have been looking and there have been a few interviews. Two of the interviews were generated through staffing agencies. The first interview did not go well and I received no confirmation from the agency to confirm a rejection. I followed up with them a month later and they mentioned the company had decided to hire from within, which I felt was just a flat-out lie.
The second interview through a staffing firm was recent and the interview was very positive. I followed up with thank-you letters to both people I had met with and got a call 3 days later from the staffing agent, stating they desired a 2nd interview in a couple of days but she didn't know the time. She said she would get back to me soon with more info. After that I heard nothing. 3 days went by and I called her office and did not receive a call back. I then called the hiring manager at the company and left him a very cordial and professional message asking about the status of the second interview, but had no response from either party. I waited until yesterday (3 business days after the phone calls ) and emailed the staffing woman requesting a reason why they had stopped everything in such an odd manner and how I might be able to improve anything on my end for upcoming opportunities. I received a response from her that they still wanted to meet with me, hopefully sometime next week, and the reason was they were quite busy, etc, etc. I thanked her for her help and mentioned I would follow up in a week if I didn't hear anything by then. Then today I get a call from her and she tells me they decided to hire someone internally but they might be bringing me back in for a different position interview in a few weeks, "but no promises."
What happened here? Truthfully, I don't believe the staffing agent's story and figured you might be able to decode this ridiculous turn of events.
I hate to tell you this, but I think you're reading way too much into all this and being too suspicious.
Your staffing agency sounds like it might be mediocre, possibly disorganized and unresponsive. At a minimum, they don't put a premium on keeping candidates in the loop in a timely way. But believe me, they are soooo not alone in that behavior; it's very common, although obviously it shouldn't be. I happen to believe that not getting back to candidates who took the time to interview is the height of rudeness, but plenty of companies operate that way.
But being slow to get back to you and not being responsive to your calls doesn't indicate that they're lying to you. People who hire for a living are used to having to dispense rejection; they don't make up cover stores when it's so easy to just tell the truth -- "we went with another candidate," "we didn't feel you were the right match," etc. I can almost guarantee you that unless you somehow stumbled upon the one staffing agency in the world that isn't comfortable rejecting people, they're not lying to you.
Job hunting is frustrating and even more so when your calls aren't getting returned. But don't leap from that to assuming there's some kind of mysterious cover-up going on here.
Tuesday, June 30, 2009
using jealousy to push a company to make an offer
A reader writes:
Three weeks ago, I interviewed for a job with a major media company. This was/is a dream job . I was interviewed by HR, and after the interview I was taken to a second interview on the same day with my potential supervisor. I believed both interviews went well and was even given an homework assignment to test my skills and qualifications.When I got home later that day, I sent the HR person a thank you note but not my potential supervisor. Was this a mistake?
Four days later, I turned in my assignment to my potential supervisor but I did not receive a confirmation email from him stating that the assignment was received. I wrote a follow-up email asking for confirmation two days later. My letter was a formal, succinct letter, nothing unusual. I felt it I should be formal with my potential supervisor because we are not peers, so addressing him by his first name was a no-no.
Within minutes of my email, I received this note from him: "Received. You will hear from us shortly." No salutations, no closing, just those words.
This email was received about two weeks ago. Since then I have spoken to my references and was told by all of them that no one contacted them about me. These are references from individuals whom I trust to tell me the truth, individuals who are forthright and are great communicators.
A few days ago, I accepted a non-paying position at a company owned by a friend. The position is similar to the one I interviewed for. Although I accepted this job, I am still interested and enthusiastic about working with the media company. I want to show them that I am in demand as well as a valuable candidate. Also: As the job duties with the other company amounts to something that is part-time and unpaid, in the short term, I am hoping that by informing them of my new circumstances, they will give me an answer about the job I interviewed for. Is this crazy?
In informing them of my new situation, I do not want to communicate to them that I am impatient or desperate ( I really am) so what do I do? Should I forget this experience and move on or should I forge ahead and gamble? If I gamble, how do I inform them that I am doing the same thing somewhere else but am still interested in working them? I do not want to communicate that I am unreliable or unfaithful. Please advise.
1. I wouldn't say that only sending a thank-you note to the HR rep and not the hiring manager was a mistake per se, but it would be better to send it to both of them. Of the two, if you were only going to send one, I'd send it to the hiring manager, as he has more influence at this stage over whether you're hired. But that's unlikely to make or break you so you really shouldn't worry too much about it -- although it's not too late to send a follow-up note now.
2. His note confirming receipt of your exercise was a bit brusque, but I wouldn't read anything into that, other than that he's busy.
3. Now as for your major question, whether to tell them that you've accepted a non-paying position: No. For several reasons:
a. First, unless you're very specific that it's short-term and the employer is okay with you leaving at any time, they'll assume you're now committed elsewhere. I would be very hesitant to hire a candidate who just accepted a different position, as her willingness to screw over that employer would be a huge negative. You can explain the situation of course, but then they're just going to wonder why you're telling them at all.
b. The fact that it's non-paying may potentially devalue you in their eyes. I'm not saying it should, but it could. I don't see enough benefit to justify that risk.
c. You're really just looking for ways to push them into action, right? This won't do it. There are only two ways to push a prospective employer into action, and neither of them are guaranteed:
- You can mention that you have another offer and a deadline for answering it. (This is not something you should lie about, since they may just tell you they can't meet your deadline and so you should take it -- and then you're out of the running with them. So you should only do this if it's true.)
- You can contact the hiring manager, reiterate your strong interest, and ask for a timeline. This may or may not get them moving, but it's really all you can do.
(Wow, check out this outline format I used above. The numbers, the letters, the dashes...)
Meanwhile, continue your job search. Hopefully you'll hear from this company with good news, but you can't plan around that. You've got to keep searching until you have an offer in hand. Good luck!
Three weeks ago, I interviewed for a job with a major media company. This was/is a dream job . I was interviewed by HR, and after the interview I was taken to a second interview on the same day with my potential supervisor. I believed both interviews went well and was even given an homework assignment to test my skills and qualifications.When I got home later that day, I sent the HR person a thank you note but not my potential supervisor. Was this a mistake?
Four days later, I turned in my assignment to my potential supervisor but I did not receive a confirmation email from him stating that the assignment was received. I wrote a follow-up email asking for confirmation two days later. My letter was a formal, succinct letter, nothing unusual. I felt it I should be formal with my potential supervisor because we are not peers, so addressing him by his first name was a no-no.
Within minutes of my email, I received this note from him: "Received. You will hear from us shortly." No salutations, no closing, just those words.
This email was received about two weeks ago. Since then I have spoken to my references and was told by all of them that no one contacted them about me. These are references from individuals whom I trust to tell me the truth, individuals who are forthright and are great communicators.
A few days ago, I accepted a non-paying position at a company owned by a friend. The position is similar to the one I interviewed for. Although I accepted this job, I am still interested and enthusiastic about working with the media company. I want to show them that I am in demand as well as a valuable candidate. Also: As the job duties with the other company amounts to something that is part-time and unpaid, in the short term, I am hoping that by informing them of my new circumstances, they will give me an answer about the job I interviewed for. Is this crazy?
In informing them of my new situation, I do not want to communicate to them that I am impatient or desperate ( I really am) so what do I do? Should I forget this experience and move on or should I forge ahead and gamble? If I gamble, how do I inform them that I am doing the same thing somewhere else but am still interested in working them? I do not want to communicate that I am unreliable or unfaithful. Please advise.
1. I wouldn't say that only sending a thank-you note to the HR rep and not the hiring manager was a mistake per se, but it would be better to send it to both of them. Of the two, if you were only going to send one, I'd send it to the hiring manager, as he has more influence at this stage over whether you're hired. But that's unlikely to make or break you so you really shouldn't worry too much about it -- although it's not too late to send a follow-up note now.
2. His note confirming receipt of your exercise was a bit brusque, but I wouldn't read anything into that, other than that he's busy.
3. Now as for your major question, whether to tell them that you've accepted a non-paying position: No. For several reasons:
a. First, unless you're very specific that it's short-term and the employer is okay with you leaving at any time, they'll assume you're now committed elsewhere. I would be very hesitant to hire a candidate who just accepted a different position, as her willingness to screw over that employer would be a huge negative. You can explain the situation of course, but then they're just going to wonder why you're telling them at all.
b. The fact that it's non-paying may potentially devalue you in their eyes. I'm not saying it should, but it could. I don't see enough benefit to justify that risk.
c. You're really just looking for ways to push them into action, right? This won't do it. There are only two ways to push a prospective employer into action, and neither of them are guaranteed:
- You can mention that you have another offer and a deadline for answering it. (This is not something you should lie about, since they may just tell you they can't meet your deadline and so you should take it -- and then you're out of the running with them. So you should only do this if it's true.)
- You can contact the hiring manager, reiterate your strong interest, and ask for a timeline. This may or may not get them moving, but it's really all you can do.
(Wow, check out this outline format I used above. The numbers, the letters, the dashes...)
Meanwhile, continue your job search. Hopefully you'll hear from this company with good news, but you can't plan around that. You've got to keep searching until you have an offer in hand. Good luck!
Friday, June 12, 2009
dropping off your resume in person
A reader writes:
What type of cover letter should you write to go with your resume when you are going to drop off your resume at several different companies? I have several years experience in the loan processing field and want to go to companies in this field and ask if it is ok to leave my resume with them. I am not sure if this is a good way to get a job as I have never had to do this before, but I am hoping it will help me in my pursuit of finding a job.
Well, to answer your question before I rant about what I want to rant about, use the exact same sort of cover letter that you'd use if you were applying any other way.
Now that that's out of the way: I really don't recommend this tactic at all. Most companies include specific instructions about how they want you to apply, and it's pretty unlikely that "in person" is included. Plus, many companies only accept resumes electronically because they get put into an electronic screening system. Third, this is unnecessarily gimmicky; save yourself the time, apply online, and if you're a strong candidate, they'll contact you.
Yes, yes, everyone has heard a story about someone who went by to drop off their resume in person and got interviewed and hired on the spot. It's still, in general, not a good use of your time. (Everyone has also heard the story about the guy who sent a shoe in with his application, asking to "get a foot in the door." That guy is a cheeseball. Don't be him. Don't be any of these urban legends.)
What type of cover letter should you write to go with your resume when you are going to drop off your resume at several different companies? I have several years experience in the loan processing field and want to go to companies in this field and ask if it is ok to leave my resume with them. I am not sure if this is a good way to get a job as I have never had to do this before, but I am hoping it will help me in my pursuit of finding a job.
Well, to answer your question before I rant about what I want to rant about, use the exact same sort of cover letter that you'd use if you were applying any other way.
Now that that's out of the way: I really don't recommend this tactic at all. Most companies include specific instructions about how they want you to apply, and it's pretty unlikely that "in person" is included. Plus, many companies only accept resumes electronically because they get put into an electronic screening system. Third, this is unnecessarily gimmicky; save yourself the time, apply online, and if you're a strong candidate, they'll contact you.
Yes, yes, everyone has heard a story about someone who went by to drop off their resume in person and got interviewed and hired on the spot. It's still, in general, not a good use of your time. (Everyone has also heard the story about the guy who sent a shoe in with his application, asking to "get a foot in the door." That guy is a cheeseball. Don't be him. Don't be any of these urban legends.)
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